Tags
antifa, BLM, election fraud, law and order, Mitt Romney, mostly peaceful protests, orange man bad, political agitators, President Trump, the rule of law
As I’m sure you know by now, gentle readers, protests in Washington, DC have turned “mostly peaceful.” As I’m sure you also know, the media is absolutely untrustworthy. The narrative, as this is written, is “Trump supporters” went wild. Of the photos I’ve seen, most of the individuals being so labeled are dressed in the traditional black of BLM and Antifa, appear to be anarchists, or are other assorted idiots—such as a guy in a horned helmet, apparently an escapee from a 4th rate Wagnerian opera company–looking for attention. What I suspect we’ll discover in the days to come is more or less that. What I’m not seeing, in the video and photos thus far, is the kind of wanton destruction and mayhem that is the trademark of the paramilitary wing of the D/S/C Party.
I am, of course, severely limited by having only media sources upon which to depend (absolutely not Fox News).
What is different from the kinds of “protests” we’ve become used to seeing, is President Trump and everyone associated with his Administration immediately and unmistakably called for all violence to end, and for an immediate end to the protests. Not only that, but he has called out the National Guard, the FBI and various other federal law enforcement resources.
That noted, a few initial observations:
*As President Trump has said, peaceful protest, as guaranteed by the First Amendment, is legitimate. Violence of any kind is not and should be prosecuted, just as that kind of violence in America’s D/S/C ruled cities was, and is, not.
*Feckless and entitled legislators of both parties, particularly those who did not condemn, and who actually encouraged “mostly peaceful protestors” across the country in 2020 are getting a first hand taste of the chaos and anarchy they have so cynically encouraged and manipulated. Now it’s on their doorstep. Welcome to the reality of the political chaos you’ve created and nurtured.
*I would like to think this the action of thoughtful patriots—which the apparent lack of wanton destruction suggests–but we don’t know nearly enough to make that kind of assumption. At the moment, it appears to be the action of opportunists, political agitators, and dimwits.
*The media, desperate to build an anti-American narrative, will do all it can to cover up any involvement by leftist agitators, and will reflexively blame it on “Trump supporters” despite having little or no evidence to that effect.
*It’s something I’ve often noted, but the police can only be successful, can only survive, because most people are willing to obey the law most of the time. When people don’t believe the rule of law is any longer in effect, the police can’t do their jobs. Americans have had a long time to be convinced there is, at best, a two-tiered system of justice, which is unconstitutional and un-American.
*I suspect the reason the police did not start shooting is they realized they were dealing with Americans who had enough, people who really wished them no harm. I also suspect they are just as frustrated with our corrupt and stupid political class as every rational American is.
*D/S/Cs, and certain witless Republicans, will use this to their political advantage, and to the disadvantage of liberty. Who should bear any blame, gentle readers? Those socialist/communist thugs that steal an election, or the President and others who call attention to their crimes? D/S/Cs are big about not blaming victims, unless they happen to be Orange Man Bad.
*Politicians should reasonably take this as a warning. They’re not dealing with sheep; they’re dealing with Americans, who can be pushed only so far. D/S/Cs, thinking themselves morally and intellectually superior, and the vanguard of a great and inevitable fundamentally transformative revolution, won’t see things that way. They’ll use this as an excuse to attack individual liberties. In so doing, they’ll doom our republic, which is their general goal in any case.
*If there is any lesson politicians should learn from this it is unless Americans can be reasonably certain elections are fairly and lawfully conducted, our Republic stands in jeopardy.
*The only thing that might help reverse a very dangerous trend is the establishment of a complete and competent investigation into the fraud in the 2020 election, and the prosecution of everyone involved in any way in perpetuating it. When 40+% of the American public reasonably believes a presidential election has been stolen, there is no other choice if we are to remain the United States.
*Perhaps the other lesson they should learn is when they lawlessly and arrogantly threaten the lives, families, careers, and liberties of Americans, Americans will not restrain themselves to polite, reasoned argument. Some will take it personally, and hold them personally accountable.
Once again, peaceful protest is not only acceptable, it’s a very good thing, healthy for our republic. Violence of any kind is not, and must be prosecuted, without consideration of political motivation, under the equal application of the rule of law.
More when more is known, and/or I can contribute something worthwhile to better understanding the issues.
UPDATE, 01-06-21, 1630 MT:
No, it’s not civil war. Again, this incident appears to be little more than many really ticked off Americans expressing their displeasure in a way federal politicians can’t easily ignore. What will cause the Second Civil War is a totalitarian, arrogant response to this, and to Americans generally, by D/S/Cs. Any bets on what they’ll do, gentle readers?
UPDATE, 01-06-21, 2130 MT:
Do they really think Normal Americans look like this?
I’ve had the time to view much more video and photography of the events at the Capital today. What I’m seeing leads me to believe much, if not all of this, was staged–provoked by leftist agitators. I’m seeing far too many young men wearing the kinds of helmets, balaclavas, clothing and protective equipment commonly worn by Antifa, BLM and other anarchists. The red ball caps they are wearing—many of them merely red–not bearing “MAGA” logos–appear to be brand new, as do their Trump banners and other signage. In other words, those easily identifiable graphics appear to have been handed out for this occasion. Certainly, others followed once they breached defenses and broke windows to enter buildings, but they appear to be older, casually, not specifically dressed, and apparently did not engage in vandalism or other crimes. I could be wrong, but that’s what my lyin’ eyes tell me.
Listening to Sean Hannity this evening, I was amused to see how shocked he was that anyone could possibly get into the Capital building without permission. What he, and I’m sure, most Americans does not realize is what I earlier mentioned. Without voluntary compliance with the rule of law, the police cannot do their jobs or survive. There are simply not enough of them to ring any building 24/7/365 to ensure perfect security, and even if there were, even that would not stop a determined enemy. Nor is the Capital Building, which belongs to the People, designed for that purpose, nor should it be. Several officers were reported injured. That’s the work of people who do that sort of thing for a living or for fun, not Normal Americans.
Consider too the optics of the Congress surrounding itself with sufficient armed force to protect themselves, while actively working to deny self-defense to Normal Americans. That wouldn’t bother many of them, but it would tend to annoy Normals.
The point is the Congress should, if it were honest and sane, take pains to ensure Americans can have faith in the rule of law. They have not, and they have rubbed American’s collective faces in it, which is in part why they had a mass unscheduled visit from their constituents today.
Why would leftists provoke this kind of political theater? To justify depriving Americans of their liberties, of course. Do not for a moment doubt, gentle readers, many D/S/Cs on Capital Hill are wringing their hands in glee at the thought, as their media propaganda arm does their dirty work for them, spreading the appropriate narrative.
Stately McDaniel Manor 
My lefty boss emailed me asking if I saw what was going on. I said it didn’t seem anything like the other “mostly peaceful protests”.
She said “It’s anything but peaceful!” I sent her the live feed and asked where the looting and burning was (at that time, the protesters were singing the national anthem).
Haven’t heard anything back from her.
I think I’ll go raise a toast to the patriots.
Dear Marty:
Singing the national anthem is what we expect of patriots. That, I suspect, will not be reported by the media.
This was domestic terrorism.
Dear danielwalldammit:
Love the handle, by the way. From what we now know, I think not. Some small portion of the crowd at some places seem to have stepped over the line, but again, we’re not seeing the kind of blatant, obviously planned criminal activity we’ve seen during “the summer of love.”
If that argument seems plausible to you, then you are welcome to it.
Dear danielwalldammit:
I don’t suggest you must inevitably be wrong, only that we know so little about the facts, and we must be cautious about what we call “terrorism.” Definitions matter, which is why D/S/Cs are so fond of warping them to their purposes.
Enjoy your euphemisms.
As one man put it…
All we wanted was to be heard to present our evidence… we were denied that
No one would listen to us
No Judge No Court No Supreme Court No Politicians No One
Dear hocuspocus13:
Oh, they’re going to hear from Americans. They may not like it when they do.
There is no ready that we will restore integrity in elections. The Democrats have exploited electoral fraud to get into power. They now control all mechanisms that might reform the electoral process. Now that they have usurped power, they will never again allow free and fair elections. As Franklin said, we have a republican of we can keep it. We just lost it.
Dear Elmer,
You are quite right. The republic was just broken. The plan
had been to have time run out before facts, examined
under proper conditions would make plain the methods.
This had been planed in almost plain view, as Michael Anton
discussed months ago. The battle terrain had been prepared.
Violence is a justified response; this is really
the choice that the Democratice Party, and especially its
Masters, presented to America, but really, what sane person
would ever want to go down that path?
However, what lies on the other path? I’m afraid it is a rough
beast making its way to Bethlehem.
John
Dear Elmer Fudd:
I pray you’re wrong. We’ll see all too shortly, I fear.
I’ve seen some stories that the DC police shot a woman.
It’s really hard to blame anyone for being angry with Congress. I don’t think there’s anyone that actually approves of the job that they’re doing.
Set up. Cops let everyone walk in.
Dear mobiuswolf:
You appear to be correct. This one is going to be hard to explain away: https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/01/why_did_the_capitol_police_fail_to_protect_the_capitol.html
…and on that Evening of November 3rd 2020 Election Night
As Pence sat watching the Election results with President Trump they saw all the votes Trump got to be reelected as President of the United States of America
700,000 more votes than Biden in just Pennsylvania alone
Then something took place as both noticed and watched in real time votes being switched from Trump to Biden
They all watched the voter fraud that took place that night right in front of their very eyes
They even had a press conference about it with Pence and his wife Karen standing right there with and next to President Trump and Melania about the voter fraud that happened
But for some unknown reason today January 6th 2021 Mike Pence seems to have forgotten that he actually witnessed the voter fraud…
Dear hocuspocus13:
Some commentators are suggesting Pence’s political career is over. That may be right, unless he becomes a D/S/C.
The DC police appear to have fatally shot a 14 year Air Force security police woman. She was unarmed. She was one of their own. Next time show up armed.
Dear Phil:
It appears she died because of a panicky capital hill cop. I’ve read reports he fired more or less blindly through a door or window, but we still don’t know the facts, other than that she’s dead for actually peacefully protesting.
Remember Patriots, any time a Traitor needs to be made right, do not attempt to start with them. No. Start with those that protect them. Eventually, the Traitor runs out of people willing to protect them.
Congress, in its entirety, have publically proven themselves Traitors one and all.
Supreme Court? Same.
Interesting times ahead.
MAGA!!!
Nice crowd. You all are just chomping at loading a 30 round magazine in the family AK, aren’t you. All in the name of Trump.
No Doug, belt feed M2. Backed up with mortars.
You guys truly think this is all funny and some grand victory.. for what?
Dear Doug:
Funny? We’re all about to find out just how unfunny all of this is.
What Phil said.
Can you hear us NOW???
Dear Doug:
You still don’t get it. Actually, you do, but you’re just pretending you don’t. Normal Americans don’t worship politicians; that’s for D/S/Cs. They do support politicians that support the Constitution and the rule of law. That’s the issue here.
And what politicians who do or do not “support the Constitution” is to be determined by you… and those that echo your opinions? Well.. I suppose that’s what “we” do when we have opinions.
Trump.. the great non-supporter of the Constitution, is being further ostracized as a nut case. He’s got 13 more days to further try to ruin the country. Although there’s more talk inside the administration about invoking the 25th. Too bad, so sad.
Dear Doug:
Which politicians support the Constitution? All one needs to figure that one out is the ability to read.
Untrue.. one also needs to understand what they are reading and use some kind of judgement to read for comprehension. You’re the English teacher… and should know that. To be more precise, many people prefer others do the reading… and interpreting… for them. Not necessarily a fault as humans are diverse in their needs.
Just curious though… you think the Capitol “invaders” are traitors? Not setting you up.. just curious.
Dear Doug:
Of course they’re not. The definition of treason is quite narrow, and nothing done, even by those that did break the law, amounts to treason. They were unwise, but unlike most of the “mostly peaceful protests” of the last year, most of them appear not to have engaged in wanton destruction looting and arson.
As to reading, my point is the Constitution is easily understood, and it is equally easy for the reasonable man or woman to determine who is violating it and when.
We can agree on the traitor label… although I might lean toward the “act” being traitorous… but even at that, the definition requires an established enemy. I’m not all that sold on “insurrection” either. A “bunch of misguided Americans, inspired by Trump, hung up on the emotional mob mentality of the moment”, but that does not serve to detract that individually each one of them took part in an act of domestic terrorism against the federal government… and are responsible. Trump is the insurrectionist… whether he comprehends it or not… because I honestly think he knows not what he does, nor does he care.
Dear Doug:
Insurrection and act clearly distinguishable from a mere crime, such as trespassing or destruction of property. A single act, such at what happened at the Capital on the 6th, may constitute a number of crimes committed by individuals, but none of them would seem to rise to the level required by the statute, and any attempt to prosecute those actions as insurrection would be a real stretch. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383
My only apprehension on all these “political” labels in assigning blame to those who entered the building is that in the end these are fellow Americans, en masse.. and hardly part of some huge revolutionary equivalent of the storming of the Bastille. That’s not to in any way minimize what they did is in fact a crime… but I’m not so sure it qualifies as open revolt. Honestly.. this wouldn’t have even happened if the cops/guard was there guarding the place. Mob simply took advantage. The emotional rage of the mob.. that’s on Trump, et al.
You misunderstand Doug. It’s not about Trump. Those suffering from TDS are all making the same mistake when you think this is about Trump. It’s NOT. It’s about the means that was used to remove him. The collusion of the deep state and the D/S/C’s to cheat the results of an election.. with the assent and cooperation of the Republican party.
Worst of all, it was blatant. Anyone who doesn’t close their eyes to the evidence while screaming “la-la-la-I-can’t-hear-you-la-la-la-la” knows it. The claims went from “There is NO FRAUD” to “There was not WIDESPREAD fraud” to “There wasn’t enough fraud to make a difference – no we will not investigate any of this, we like the outcome and we won’t look closely at anything that could jeopardize that.”
We (and by we, I mean Americans who believe in the Constitution and rule of law) just watched our Republic die. The complete and total shredding of the Constitution. By those who were elected to serve it (politicians).
Those elected to administrate it (the local governments facilitating the steal).
And those appointed to protect it (the courts).
The Constitution doesn’t mean anything anymore. Elections mean nothing, for now the D/S/C’s control the means by which politicians can be elected. The Republic is dead. The social contract is gone. How do you expect patriots to react to to that? How do you think they’ll react to fresh bouts of D/S/C tyranny from Washington? Do you, and those like you, really think none of this is your fault?
You are basing your entire political thought… your political opinion… your political ideals… completely around Trump.. and Trump alone. Pick on Trump and democracy is dead.. am I right? That is your entire basis for your political thoughts?
Sorry.. my world, my perception of democracy, my abhorrence at seeing what happened to “my” Capitol during a session of Congress by Trump cultists… is NOT in the least dependent on my worshipping Trump or any other totalitarian personage.
Your world is surrounded by the lies Trump sells you… that’s on you. I am for something higher than Trump… democracy. Now.. if you want to admire that orange clown that’s up to you.. free country. But a great way to kill democracy.. and the nation, is play with idea of s civil war because of YOUR definition of Trump patriotism.
Dear Doug:
No. You’re not remotely right. I’ve frequently explained why.
Doug, No! Most people that support our president are very sad, depressed and sick over the situation! However, you can’t forget that when the Kavanaugh hearings occurred in 2018, and more than 300 broke into the capitol, the media called them “brave”. They put the stamp of approval on this type of behavior. That was a much smaller crowd, for that protest, but a much larger group that got into the capitol. The media and the left condoned and even supported that behavior. It was awful, just like it is now. But what did they think was going to happen? I understand that there were more than 800,000 people at this event. The fraction that behaved badly was a tiny fraction of 1%. You cant blame everyone that supports our president for the actions of a few. That would be like suggesting that you want to take over Seattle and burn businesses, cars and shoot random people, just because some on the left did it Heck. Maxine Waters told her supporters to confront trump supporters and get in their faces at restaurant’s or wherever they see them. That type of behavior is where all of the craziness started. Now there is a lot of fear about what the left is going to with the full power of the government. Please try to see both sides.
Oh trust me…. people on this blog like to shrug me off as some troll and while I continue to post replies in here at the pleasure (or displeasure) of Mike… I am here, and on a couple other Conservative blogs, indeed to understand the humanist “sides” in all this… in spite of the fact I in no way feel the same as the people in here in the broader sense. What I understand more than you realize is the impact of Biden’s win on the 74 million who voted for Trump and believe in Trump. My personal goal was “Trump out” and I fully knew from before his escalator walk that he would do it to himself.. and stick it to the country… given his mental deficiencies. Trump is NOT the politics. The issues are. I will also tell you as I have said this often enough for months.. if Trump stays in power to the 20th.. there’s more to come. Just depends what your breaking point is. My personal politics is not some allegiance to Trump MAGA but rather the Constitution.
Dear Doug:
You’re welcome here. Anyone willing to be polite is. The real reason they want Trump out now is so he won’t cause various special prosecutors to be appointed, won’t do additional pardons, and other lawful things that would be uncomfortable for our new rulers to have to publicly destroy.
Thanks for the affirming welcome.
I think we are way past the idea that the urge to remove Trump is for prosecutors, pardons, and a potential for sabotaging Biden. Events are moving fast. In the paraphrased words of Steve Buscemi in “Armageddon”, take a front seat to embrace the horror to come… in the next 12 days. (No.. it’s not Armageddon… but it will be nasty.)
While I am sure there are a large number of AK variants out there in the right hands, They are dwarfed by the number of AR pattern rifles. And those are dwarfed by the number of lever and bolt action rifles. I certainly would not want to be on the receiving end of a well placed 45-70. Mortars and my favorite Mother not required :)
To paraphrase, “the republic is dead, long live the republic.” We are no longer the United States of America, except nominally, and the people are no longer represented, except nominally. What we will be is still in the works, as the cultural and political civil war skirmishes indicate. In the not too distant future, we either will be only the United State of America, a unitary neo-European-like power that is second to China and favored by Wall Street Republicans and most if not all of the Democratic party, or that plus a group or groups of states who form a new republic(s) attempting to recapture what was best of the old one. In either event, the enemies of liberty (and the accomplices or cowards who were elected to fight them as the people’s representatives) are now out of the shadows. If a third-party does not emerge to replace the republican party at the national level beginning in the 2022 cycle, the descent into unitary rule will be faster. State-oriented republicans need to think hard about that going forward.
Who exactly is an enemy of liberty?
Dear Doug:
I’m sure Old Barn will reply, but that would be those that try to diminish or eliminate any of the fundamental rights acknowledged in the Bill of Rights. Examples abound.
And this would be people who have more than just a difference in opinion or ideology? These are people who openly, with definitive intent, proclaim their defiance to the Bill of Rights? Or are these people with the secret handshakes and star chambers.. waiting in the shadows to over through the government?
oh dear.. that’s “overthrow”. I must have been off school that day.
Doug,
What is your address? I’d like to come by and go
get a beer with you. I like the cut of your coat, in
this crowd of crazies.
Really, what is your home address?
Poncho
As much as I enjoyed watching The Cisco Kid banter with his sidekick Poncho at the end of each episode, the fact I know what that TV show is makes me far too old and wise (more so in my dreams) to acquiesce to your request. Besides, the cut of my coat no one in here appreciates. But nice try.
I’ll just stick with what Mike said, and add only that either of your categories would qualify, but those are not exclusive.
what would Doug do if it were not for other
people’s blogs? His failed. He’s like the
guy who you have to accomodate
in the elevator from time to time, who
passes gas, fouling the air.
How bout giving me your address?
You mean having a blog is a pissing match? Golly… you’re right… the size of my blog is far smaller than other blogs. Maybe Mike is a stud blogger. Would you prefer having your own echo chamber?
Mike is a stud blogger?! I love it!!! I needed a little levity in my day. He shall forever be referred to as Stud Master Mike!
Dear PK:
Now, now, we don’t want to frighten the livestock and stampede the women and children…
HAHAHAHA!!!!
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/anti-trump-activist-entered-capitol-wednesday
BLM activists also inside the capitol on January 6, 2021. Was he arrested?
I’m curious. Why does anyone bother responding to “Doug” after the first exchange or so? He obviously isn’t interested in an actual conversation beyond “let me explain how stupid you are and how you are a Trump fanboy.” He has no desire to understand our position or concerns. Reminds me of a former friend who would always tell you what you thought and why you were stupid for thinking that way.
Because the concerns reflected in here are always about Trump…. and this continuing saga about how Liberals/Dems are taking away your freedoms. Talk of getting violent, sucking up the fear he tosses your way…. denying the pandemic… the conspiracy theories alone.. jeez. You’re all sitting there at your keyboards relishing and excusing and deflecting away the Trump supporters who just disgraced an institution of democracy, disgracing our flag and touting allegiance to the MAGA flag. You DO have legitimate concerns… but they do NOT center around Trump.
I am simply challenging your thinking… once in a while because even I can only take this in pieces. You come up with something more than the usual D/S/C this, D/S/C that, deep state conspiracies, it’s the end of the world now that Biden and Harris are coming on the scene. That’s your bias that I need to understand?
Sure.. I could just ignore this place and move on.. as many here would love I do. I’m sure that time will come.
I actually like having my thoughts challenged. It gives me a chance to reconsider if I still feel the same way. So this is why I feel the way I do about the Trump…
During his primary, I thought, oh this guy is so exhausting he’s giving me a headache, what a narcissist (although, you have to have narcissistic tendencies to run for the office).There have often been times that I wished Trump would stop talking or tweeting, but he does make good decisions for the country. And once I got to the core of his positions I realized WOW this man actually wants to make the best decisions for the American people. Its not about gaining power or money, he had nothing to gain. He just wants to create the most productive policies to help us become the best we can be. There is this sense that he really has our backs and wants things to be fair for all. And I do believe that includes ALL of the American people. Not just the ones that agree with him.
We have heard all of the lies and edited clips of Charlottesville etc. making a false case that he is a racist and white supremist etc. Those lies and more have made most of us understand that there is something deeply wrong. Especially when the government and media need to do this to create this false narrative.
I believe the left has proven to be liars who only care about power and their own pocketbooks. They have certain causes and people that are useful tools until they aren’t useful anymore, but that’s it. Look at the censorship that has happened just in the last day or two. and the media calling for the cleansing of Trump supporters. The thought of what they will do with the full power of the government is very scary. If the left (and some on the right)had just allowed an audit of the election, things would have been ok. The fact that they did everything to prevent a forensic audit says there must be a lot to see there.
Bottom line… We feel safe with Trump, and I think that’s all any of us want. So its not about Trump the man. Its the feeling of security and protection that he provides.
Nicely explained actually.. although I would submit your conclusions about Trump from the beginning seem misguided when compared to everything he’s done… up to and including this week. I am guessing you would still defend Trump after all the recent events.
I am truly drawn to your final point… “It’s the feeling of security and protection he provides.” I admire your statement because it expresses something a bit deeper. Something I’ve not witnessed in all the other Conservative dialog. Just me.. I’m a little into the psych thing.
Dear PK:
Quite so. I’d add only two thoughts: (1) Normal Americans don’t worship politicians. Whatever respect they have for Trump–or any pol–comes from their fidelity to the Constitution, and from their demonstrated fidelity to America and Americans. They actually expect an American president to represent America, which is largely why D/S/Cs, the media, etc. hate Trump so much. (2) The graphic that suggests D/S/Cs hate Americans most of all–Trump is just the easy focus/sumbol of that hate–is very much accurate.
Doug,
What are the Biden Harris policies that you like?
I would like to make 2 bets with you just for kicks…
1. They will not be able to get Trump out of office before inauguration day.
2. Within the next 8 months you will change your opinion and wish Trump had stayed in office.
Let me be precise yet again.. while I’m the lone person in here disputing the house opinion that all of you are drawn to… I am far less about policies and way far more about what I have perceived before the elevator descent from the heavens as the mental aberrations and dysfunctions that our nation would pay for down the line, represented in Trump. I realize that many in here love to debate policies as the separator causing the great national divide… when in fact it’s Trump himself, the person, causing the divide. Again I shall repeat… I’ve been GOP all my life.. an admitted Liberal Conservative.. or centrist, according to current definition. I voted absentee as a card carrying California GOP voter, not for Trump. On Nov. 3rd I went online and removed my political affiliation from GOP to “other” (CA doesn’t not have “Independent”). So at present I am a card carrying “Other”. I do not want anything to do with Trumplicanism. No one here cares about any of that.. but my differences with Trump are less about policy and more about his clear & present danger to the nation… which he is again revealing to the world.
1. I don’t care if they can’t get Trump out of office before the 20th. Impeachment would be largely be a symbol of national discontent as it pertains to the House and making the point that his insurrection language does have some level of consequence. The Senate GOP can do what they want. No bet from me.
2. Pretty much anyone inside the political realm, including Pence, would do a better job than Trump ever has.. regardless of party. I do not one bit subscribe to the Trump-induced fear that Conservatives hold.. as Mike’s posts suggests… that some end of the world is near. Hell, I thought that back on Jan 20th 2017.. and sadly, it’s all culminated to this last 11 days. No bets here either… I’m for anyone with experience who can replace Trump. Once that happens.. we can discuss policy again.
Doug, look at all Trump has done for middle east peace recently. Also getting us out of the Iran deal, the VA, vets, unemployment, taxes. There is just so much good that he has done for our country. Including keeping us out of wars.
Trump didn’t tell anyone to breach the capitol, they were only supposed to march to it. And who was right up front? BLM activist John Sullivan. He organized an Antifa event at the same time as the rally and he was released WITHOUT charges after he was arrested. Right now we don’t know how many Antifa or BLM members were in there. We probably never will. But we do know Sullivan organized an Antifa event for the same place and time, and we do know he was there. So one could conclude there were more than just Sullivan.
Why does the left need such a double standard? You have to admit Trump was tortured with lies, spying and all manner of deception and illegal leaks for his entire term. And he still accomplished so much! I don’t think anyone else would have been able to stand up to it.
I fully believe that what happened at the capitol was the fault of those that had a hand in refusing to allow the forensic audit. Plus Antifa was there. So no, I don’t blame Trump. I do wish he would tone his rhetoric. But the thing that is really great is that you always know where he stands. If he says he is going to do something he does it or tries like hell. He doesn’t make promises he has no intention of keeping like ALL the others. I respect that.
I respect your reply, although all the Antifa reference… while common sense would suggest any number of political ideologies might have been in that mega-crowd with whatever intentions, as might be in any large demonstration like that, early FBI reports show no organized Antifa… even on social media, to the extent of the Right wing radicals. But I am sure you have that covered as well.
There’s a part of me that actually feels badly so many Trump-inspired fellow Americans are being betrayed by the guy they fell for. But in recent decades people have grown suspect of government so much… some of that with good cause, I might add… it’s little wonder why Trump seemed like a political messiah for many.
The fear going around from Trump supporters is just so unnecessary.
When they censor this site and shut it down, you will miss us.
Any thought given to the possibility that you take the “poor me” Trumpian victimization, “We are losing our rights!” out of the argument and simply engage normally? I’m still trying to figure out what rights have been lost in any of this.
Dear Doug:
Once again, you’re erecting straw men. No one is saying a specific right has been eliminated, just that things are trending that way, and that’s what ought to concern any free man. Imagine the outcry if Pelosi’s Twitter account was eternally suspended, or the accounts of Iran or China.
Twitter is not government.. hence the right of them to serve anyone they wish. Remember the “selling the wedding cake to gays” judgement? Works both ways.
Is this a serious question?
Hopefully Mike will give a more complete answer on this, but here is the short version… What we are seeing/feeling is the loss of free speech. Since Trump joined Parler yesterday, Google has removed them from the app store and Apple gave them 24 hours to start moderating content or they will shut them down. Also, the Trump campaign emails have been shut down. WordPress gave Conservative Treehouse 30 days a couple of months ago so they had to find some other place to carry their content. I don’t actually use those sites, but if they censor one, they can censor all. Mike uses WordPress so of course that’s a concern.
Also, I think that the refusal to audit the votes has victimized the country. People are getting pretty tired of the refusal of transparency. How do you have 200,000 more votes than eligible voters while continuing to say nothing to see here and you cant look.
I just replied to Mike.. what loss of free speech? Facebook, Twitter, et al, are not government.. hence it’s just like the “wedding cake sale to gays” case… businesses can sell to who they want. Twitter can offer their service to who they want.
This audit business is unnecessary given all the state audits, local investigations.. unfounded court filings with no evidence… yada, yada. Even if something like that had been done.. you think Trump wouldn’t deny that as being crooked as well? Gotta stop somewhere and have some faith in the process. Either that or worry yourself into some frenzy.
Twitter and Facebook do receive certain protections from the government. Re the court cases…They were dismissed due to being to early, to late, latches and other reasons that had NOTHING to do with evidence. You know that. now you’re just messing with me. No hard feelings, but now I have a headache.
I believe you are referring to the law that stipulates a social media company cannot be sued for what others post on them. Trump tried to decree that away but it didn’t work. I am unaware of any other government “protections”.
As for getting a headache.. understood… I can only take so much myself these days.. and it’s not you personally but rather the volatility of the discussion and frustration. Usually it’s best to break off after a while.
As someone who is labeled a deplorable, fascist, etc. simply because of a vote I might cast as between two flawed candidates accused of being criminals by the respective sides of the aisle, after the last 4 years why would I have faith in the process, which requires leaders to know and follow in good faith, or at least a body who will call the bad faith in accordance with the law for everyone to see? (I work in the process for a living, by the way; if you think the courts have done their jobs, as a prudential matter, in the last two months, you are sorely misled. The courts have hidden, because they largely are composed of partisans, cowards, and people ill-informed about the principles enshrined in the constitution and who confuse opinions with law.) Maybe it’s all still intact, maybe it’s not. I think an argument can be made for both, though I believe we have witnessed or are witnessing the final death blow to the republic, except as a pretense. Imo, it’s over dude, unless the D/S/C’s show restraint on their agenda and prove they will not further threaten or erode our fundamental rights at this time (which would require patience), including removing the legal protections for big tech media. If they do that, they can continue the pretense, perhaps even help put things back together over the next couple of election cycles. If not, it’s pretense for a while and then the nasty starts. In other words, it’s over dude, and I think that will be self-evident before the end of 2021, perhaps much sooner. I hope I am wrong. No gender offense intended by the dude reference if any SJW’s are reading. “Dude” is a word, but since there is no truth, there is no meaning to it, or to anything else I have typed; you may just move along and scream privilege or something.
As an aside, I enjoy hearing from various points of view, and, for the time being, being able to post.
So, it sounds you have little faith in anything American. That’s as valid as anything else around here, although a bit sad. I am curious.. has government of any kind treated you personally badly?
Nope, I have been treated very well, though a bit like a ward rather than a citizen, as have Americans in general. And it is not that I have no faith in anything American; I have no faith in the leadership class, which has become a ruling, rather than governing class. They have demonstrated their inability to govern, particularly to govern well, and I do not consider ruling the same as governing. The process can work, just like a car can work for its intended function if it’s driven by a competent driver. If not, problems are in the offing and eventually compound. This leadership character failure is, in part, why everything has become inordinately politicized, though that itself is merely symptomatic of the moral rot that underlies the internal failure of a society, community, family, or person.
I see what you mean.. you have issues with the ruling class, hence I suspect the “elites”. But do you feel that way on your state level given that’s closer to home and generally transitions to someone new more often that’s local?
Its not really a class thing per se. In a large nation, I think it is virtually impossible not to have a class of folks geared toward political leadership and educated toward that end. It is the lack of moral character and failure of that class, on the whole more or less, regarding its purpose, which is to govern, to serve, not to rule, to be served, in a balanced way (appreciating the nature of federalism and without partisanship, meaning in this instance realizing country comes before party). In part, the failure also goes hand in hand with the rejection of tradition as a positive limiting force, including the traditions of statesmanship, but it is a multifaceted problem. The class is not closed, of course, which is good, and which provides one reason for hope that things could change peacefully.
In my particular state, the same problems exist, but not to the same extent. Also, the state legislature is hampered by constitutional restrictions, such as a requirement of a balanced budget, etc., fortunately. You might say our state constitution more or less has a built in mistrust that prevents a certain level of power abuse by the legislature. The courts are also conservatively oriented, in a general way. And, the people have remained relatively more connected to their past, for good and for ill.
So you’re more a “reluctant American” in general thought. I have to say, you sound pretty “elitist” yourself. I suppose all of what you say also includes the vast demonstrated deficiencies of Trump. One doesn’t have to subscribe to some governing class to be completely, or nearly completely, ineffective as a leader. In fact.. being detrimental and contrary to a point where governing itself becomes a threat to those being governed.
From what you say regarding the more acceptable state governing class having less abuse, should not then state service be a training/nurturing ground for federal governing?
Dear Old Barn:
What you said.
You all might like to see Arnold’s new 8 minutes video.
I guess if being elitist means I have an opinion about what I think is true and correct and am willing to discuss it, I am guilty. That’s not my definition, but I won’t quibble over that if it is yours. I have never said Trump had no deficiencies. I have always said he has serious flaws, morally and otherwise, as do I and most other folks I know. Anyone who ganders a bit into the moral mirror must, out of humility, admit that or lie to himself or herself or __self, as a general rule. Matter of fact, if you read my recent posts you know I have said that he has the capacity to be a tyrant, though I do not think he is. So I’m a little surprised at the comment. I also don’t think he will become a tyrant, but I believe if and when he organizes for the next cycle that will be the deep state mantra pushed by the media. I will change that opinion if I am convinced that he takes a course that is out of character for him and abandons his love of country. I will not argue about his success or lack thereof, we likely won’t agree and it would not really serve any purpose to know if we agree. We are just offering opinions for consideration, not trying to write the official history to which all must submit. That will be coming to a public school near you in the next year of so, and not from my hand.
As for your latter comment, the states could serve that purpose, as could corporate governance to some degree, other executive/administrative experience, or even none at all, but that would be a rare person. But all of that depends on more fundamental matters and commitments. It’s all about what is true, what is good, what is prudent, what is moral, etc, and how those are defined and implemented by fallen people (which is to say all of us), individually and collectively, in fidelity to the order of governing law. If you want my opinions on any of those, it would just be easier to tell you to read some Thomist sources about philosophy before dealing with the political aspects in particular, My favorite author on much of that, aside from reading the Bible, is Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, but he has little, if any, discussions about politics as a direct matter, at least that I am familiar with. There might be some in his commentaries on Aquinas — likely is given that Aquinas discusses government and law and virtue — but I have not read Lagrange’s commentaries. Frankly, a good deal of benefit can be garnered just from looking at the classical sources on politics and ethics and reading the federalist and anti-federalist debates.
It may just save you some trouble in figuring out my label to just think of me as one who is inclined to the view that almost everything we needed to know of import on these matters has been lying around for centuries if not a millenia or more. On that, my open mind has closed, which is the purpose of an open mind, to close on something solid and nourishing, like the purpose of the open mouth or a hungry person. I will open my mind to something else nourishing, but not the abyss that underlies the state of the world we are being asked to accept and I was educated to accept.
I am reminded from reading your reply… Cogito, ergo sum.. or to be less elitist myself, Descartes “I think, therefore I am.” (actually.. in an old blog I had, I had a similar quote… “I thought, therefore I was.”). Point being of Descartes… “it provides a foundation of knowledge in the face of radical doubt.”
I am more an armchair humanist… academic behavioralist, and a follower of Maslow. Rather a hefty swing from your boy, Garrigou-Lagrange’s theological connotations. I have found Trump, along with many real professionals in the business (including his professional niece) to be a sociopathic, behavioral dysfunctionary since before his elevator ride from the heavens. The threat, to me, was/is not so much policy but what he did/does to impose his personal dementia upon the world… as we have seen demonstrated this week. While we are worlds apart in politics.. I appreciate the philosophical bent.
Dear Doug:
Speech and action may or may not be aligned, but in Trump’s case, he has imposed nothing on America but prosperity, and on the world, peace.
Not apparently what is going to unfold for him in the near future.
Gasbag Doug,
What kind of dementia does not create any new
wars for American boys to die in–unlike the
“lucid” Obama who left office with the
Middle East in hell’s fire? What kind of
dementia forges treaties between Israel and
Muslim countries? What kind of dementia
creates the lowest unemployment figures
seen in this century? What kind of dementia
provedes boys legal protections against university
kangaroo courts–provides them with the judicial
protections safeguarded by the Consitution?
What kind of dementia returns sanity to immigration
policies? Waht kind of dementia prohibits racial
discrimination against all people?
Cut your farts now, Doug.
Joe
Gotta love free speech!
Dear Old Barn:
Indeed. All sin. However, my appreciate for Trump, or anyone who accomplished all he has done, is due to those accomplishments, and the fact he has not damaged the Constitution. Would he become a tyrant? He’s taken no steps toward that end.
We are on the same page Mike. I watch what he does, not what he says, and he has done some remarkably good things for the country and appears to be a patriot at heart.
Well… apparently there’s a large segment of Trump supporters who completely follow what he says. So while your position is comfortable for you personally it is not a universal thought in the least. Trump is going to do some more “remarkably good things” before he heads out the door.
Rest assured… any upcoming “peaceful” demonstrations will include guns.. people pulling the triggers on those guns.. and people dying. And we can all stay home and watch it all live on TV, praising the Second Amendment and the right of Americans to depose what they see as a “belligerent” government… sucking down a beer and screaming our affirmation with every explosion as if this all were Monday Night Football.
Just a casual observation… after all this nonsense occurs you might consider second thoughts on wearing a MAGA hat in public… unless you want confrontations. There are loons on both sides of this thing.
Dear Old Barn:
Wise people learned early on there is a difference between Trump’s sometimes overblown rhetoric and his intentions and actions. He did not generally “act presidential” as in past Republican presidents who did nothing to fight against D/S/Cs and their media propaganda arm. He fought back, which is partially why so many Americans appreciate him, and will appreciate any Republican who does likewise.
Reblogged this on It's Karl.
Dear karllembke:
Thanks for the reblog!
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