American constitutionalism, antifa, Civil war, equal justice for all, Kurt Schlichter, Maxine Waters, President Trump, Robert Reich, Stephen Coonts, Steve Scalise, The Constitution, the rule of law
“Doug” is a recent and frequent commenter whose ideas often stir spirited debate. This is a good thing. Spirited debate is part of why The Manor exists. Mostly it exists because I’m a writer, so I write. Providing that outlet is one of the good things about the Internet. This is part of Doug’s comment to Robert Reich: Ironic Justice:
‘I have often observed that if progressives succeed in provoking a civil war, it will be blood, but brief, and they will not be the victors. Virtue signaling and gaseous rhetoric tend to do rather poorly against well-armed, tactically proficient and determined actual patriots. I have also observed that we all must do everything we can to avoid such a conflict.’
This crazy talk about some idiotic civil war is just nonsense. And on top of you suggesting the possibility, you are actually strutting and thumping your chest in some ‘I gotta gun!’ bravado… and ‘they will not be the victors.’ I’m telling you, pal… no one will be a victor. I’ve written on all this before.. and you’ve read some of it. No one will walk away from any ill-conceived fighting, and whoever, whatever, ends up still standing will just be fractions and factions of local warlords.. say adios to the Constitution by that time. No one will be around to enforce what’s left to enforce.
What’s made all this even worse.. is that today, Trump the Buffoon, has opened his mouth with some cracked up warning that if the Republicans lose Congress then there will be violence. What an indescribable idiot. With the nutcases galore on both side, some jerks are going to accept what Trump just said as some call to arms for his base. Jeez… all this is truly nuts and you are feeding it… and now our Dear Leader is inviting it.
And you’re sitting there thinking your guns are going to insure the government YOU want? You better save your ammo to protect you and your family.. because saving some government is going to be the least of your concerns.
These are momentous issues, but first, let’s clarify one of Doug’s references, courtesy of The Telegraph:
Donald Trump warned evangelical leaders that if Republicans lose control of Congress in the midterm elections, Democrats will institute change ‘quickly and violently,’The New York Timeshas reported.
At a meeting with those leaders at the White House on Monday, the US president said everything was at stake for his conservative agenda if his party loses in November, according to an audiotape of the meeting obtained by the Times.
Democrats ‘will overturn everything that we’ve done and they’ll do it quickly and violently,’ Trump said, according to the Times report published Tuesday night.
‘They will end everything immediately.’
‘When you look at Antifa,’ he added, referring to militant Leftist anti-fascism groups, ‘and you look at some of these groups, these are violent people.
Who can doubt that Mr. Trump is right? Remember, he said “lose control of Congress,” not just the House. The Democrat Party has been driven dramatically to the Left, which has emboldened Antifa and other “social justice” and similar groups to violence and threats of violence. It has emboldened Democrat politicians to encourage people to publically harass members of the Trump Administration. In itself, this is the kind of rhetoric that can easily lead to assault or worse. It is surely irresponsible and inherently dangerous, but more, it illustrates a greater danger: the willingness of some to abandon faith and participation in American Constitutionalism.
I do not suggest that all on the left share the worse impulses of those funding and leading the political left, but they’re not the people driving events.
It is our appreciation for the genius of the Founders and the government they created that holds us together as a people, as a nation. It is the Constitution that embodies their ideas, and their prescient understanding of human nature and the evil to which men are predisposed.
Many on the Left argue for a “living Constitution,” by which they mean a Constitution without a fixed, easily understood meaning, a document filled with words that mean whatever they wish them to mean, or not mean, at any given moment, a Constitution that is a set of infinitely flexible guidelines rather than restraints on the exercise of governmental power. This is why the Left opposes judges that rule based on the law and the Constitution—they recognize the Constitution makes some things out of bounds, regardless of how well-intentioned they might be. They’re unwilling to say “the Constitution doesn’t allow that, and that settles it.” They also refuse to recognize one does not ignore or amend the Constitution except by the process established in the Constitution.
I speak of the danger of future civil war because all that holds us together as a nation is our willing, voluntary acceptance of American constitutionalism. This goes beyond a shared language, history and culture, particularly in these days when many on the Left are arguing against assimilation in ways covert and overt. Some states even seek to provide illegals many of the benefits of citizenship and assimilation such as driver’s licenses. welfare benefits, the vote and free medical care.
I’ve taken, as an ongoing project, trying to determine what might be necessary for us to descend into civil war. The defense of slavery was sufficient once. The Left—Democrats–provoked that war. In the same way, the turmoil of the civil rights era was a creation of the Left. Disclaimer: I understand I’m generalizing a bit. These were complex issues, but I trust, gentle readers, you apprehend the point.
We are not, at the moment, in imminent danger of that kind of conflict, but we can see it from here. The Left is caught up in what we might call a “soft” coup. They seek to overturn the results of a lawful, honestly conducted election by any means possible. Voluntary acceptance of American constitutionalism requires that we accept honest election results, and if we are unhappy with the people’s choice, try to reverse it at the next election. The Democrat Party has, as an institution, abandoned this foundation of our republic. They have become not, as the British would say, the loyal opposition, but the Resistance, with all its negative, destructive, anti-Democratic connotations.
This Resistance encourages its adherents not only to engage in red-faced, spitting hatred untethered from objective reality, but to produce ever more incendiary rhetoric. It nourishes the worst, most violent and anarchic elements of the Left, and has produced a resurgence of Socialism, which is nothing more than communism-lite, an ideology responsible for the deaths of more than 100 million in the last century alone. The remaining communist holdout nations continue to slaughter their own people and support much of the evil in the world.
Say what you will about the character of Donald Trump, he has kept his campaign promises, and unlike Barack Obama, he has not engaged in rule by pen and phone. All of his actions have been thus far governed by a voluntary adherence to the rule of law. One might say but some judges have ruled against some of his actions! True, but this is a matter of lawfare, another extra-constitutional tactic of the Resistance to delay lawful, constitutional exercise of the President’s legitimate executive powers. So ridiculous are some of the opinions of these leftist judges, one expects them to declare Mr. Trump himself unconstitutional at any moment.
If the Left seizes the entire Congress—unlikely—in 2018, it is certain they will do everything they can to undo everything Mr. Trump has accomplished, and to prevent him from accomplishing anything else, to say nothing of what will surely be redoubled attempts to depose him. It is not unreasonable to believe such actions would be accompanied by violence of various kinds. Should the Left manage to force Mr. Trump from office, to make a total mockery of the rule of law, they will have taken the first step, potentially an irreversible step, toward open conflict.
Why? Because that would convince Americans that honor the Constitution their opponents no longer do, that the law applies only to, and will be used only against, the law abiding. One might argue that by trying to depose a lawfully elected president, they have already demonstrated their abandonment of American constitutionalism, but completing the deed would be concrete proof.
Many on the left have pushed all manner of boundaries in the past, secure in the knowledge Republicans would not respond in kind when they again regained power. Stage a soft coup, and that calculation would no longer hold.
What is different now, and unprecedentedly ominous, is Democrats show no sign of ever again surrendering power when it next comes into their hands. They want open borders, which is nothing more than importing enough foreign voters to render lawful Americans-including Black Americans–irrelevant. They oppose voter ID laws. They argue for court stacking schemes to ensure their unconstitutional plots would have the appearance of lawfulness. California has all but declared itself an independent, progressive nation, and the list goes on and on.
And there is the strategic and tactical. Leftists generally have no understanding or appreciation of the military. They not only don’t understand it, they think anyone involved of substandard intelligence, deplorables at best. Their contempt for civilian gun owners is even greater, nearly as great as their lack of understanding of firearms and their proper and effective employment. This causes them to argue that mere citizens armed with the kinds of weapons citizens are allowed could never stand up to a modern military force. This is a particularly deadly delusion, as even a cursory reading of history will reveal.
Would there be a winner of such a conflict? It would be a tragedy of horrific proportions, but of course there would be a winner. Why seize ultimate political power unless you believed you could keep it by any means necessary? When winning is all that matters, the Constitution is meaningless.
Would the FBI, the DOJ, other federal agencies and even the military back a coup? As recent events have proved, and are continuing to prove, they would, or at least significant elements of the people involved would. Some, because they too want power; they want to be on the winning side. Some, because they have to feed their families, because they need a pension. Others might be tricked into thinking they were doing their duty under the Constitution. Even so, they wouldn’t win.
For anyone wanting to see how such a scenario might play out, I recommend three books:
Liberty’s Last Stand, by Stephen Coonts, and People’s Republic and Indian Country, by Kurt Schlichter. All are well written and realistic thrillers.
Ultimately, most of our military would not stand against fellow Americans; they honor the Constitution and would, at the very least, stand down, refusing to support either side.
What would be left are the people most capable of fighting and winning a war: those with martial knowledge, experience and materials: essentially guns and ammunition. Progressive strongholds on the coast do not produce food. Most manufacturing is not there, and most military installations with all their equipment are not there either. Nor do most of those places produce their own electrical power, and many import water from states that would not join their cause.
Crazy talk? Strategic and tactical thinking and planning. Only if the Left retreat from their current path, only if they once again voluntarily embrace American constitutionalism, which is fealty to the Constitution and the rule of law, only if they embrace equal justice for all may that kind of planning be unnecessary. I pray they will, but because they show no sign of appreciation for the uniqueness of America, because they want to fundamentally transform it, I prepare for where we may, perhaps inevitably, be going.
Oh Gawd, Mike. I didn’t see this post until after my earlier reply to your’s.
I’ve said before.. our Constitution has been effective for 240 years.. and all during that time we’ve experiences liberal administrations and conservative administrations. The concept is that there’s some balance. What exactly has changed to now presume if Congress “falls” to the liberals that there will violence and war? Wait.. let me guess.. Trump has sowed fear.
Well, I prefer not to revel in it.
Occasional Thinker said:
What has changed? Where to start. At one time the people of the U.S. prided themselves on self reliance and it was a mark of shame to not be able to care for yourself or your family. Now we are careful not to damage the self esteem of living of the government, causing the ethic of personal honour to fall by the wayside. The people of the U.S. have been Balkanized with far too many having allegiance to their identity group instead of the country as a whole. We have seen violent civil disobedience encouraged by elected officials in the form of mayors and city council members and have (seemingly) seen police deliberately push together opposing violent groups. It seems many in government are now encouraging mob rule thinking they will be able to bring it under control, which I doubt they would be able to do.
My last thought here is the bureaucracy has grown too large and arrogant. A government is a living organism and it is natural for it attempt to grow and expand. This doesn’t take a conspiracy, just people realizing that as government grows so does their opportunity to advance and gain personal power. When enough civil servants move in the same direction, each for personal advancement, government becomes oppressive and looses the trust of the people.
Do I think we are headed to a civil war? I hope not, but I doubt any country thought it would happen to them until the first shots were fired and I don’t think we are immune. I have been caught in a riot and know they blow up unbelievably quickly. We are not the same people we were before the Great Society. I am one of the people that studies history and tries to learn something from it.
I’m sorry.. but for a group of folks who love what Trump has done there sure are a lot of pessimists who read this blog.
First off, there’s no Balkanizing going on anywhere in this country. We are a very mobile people so while there’s some regionality one can assign to local politics, social mores, even food recipes… there’s no seething cauldron of regional discontent going on anywhere that I can perceive. Politically we are currently experiencing some rural vs. urban flux in income disparity (issue that got Trump elected) which seemed centered in those few states, but there is no growing regional propensity for violence. What you cite as an illustration of some “wholesale” incitement to violence by politicians and improper police response… I see no support of anything organized or even conspiratorial on a national level, much less some local level. As populations grow, stuff happens.. and if it’s against the law we can only put our trust in government and the legal system. There’s a difference between common thugary and organized revolt.
Second… I’ve made note of this many times.. and if you are a student of history you might understand this. As population grows so does government. Since the Great Society of 1965 the country population has grown an additional 130 million to the existing 325 million (from the then 196 million).. 90% increase (and, no, it’s not all illegals). Everything ramps up when population increases like that. Small percentages that seemed permissible and even acceptable back then are now reflective of huge numbers of people. Your thought that larger government encourages illicit displays of bureaucratic power brokers assuming dictatorial and conspiracy-laden leadership seems a bit overextended. Larger government requires improved vigilance and oversight; it requires assigning responsibility and proper management. Depending on what level of leadership you are referring to, there can even be assigned term limits to minimize leadership incompetence over the long haul. Will there ever be truly efficient government? Never.. and it’s foolish to ever think government can be efficient because humans are in charge and there will be abuses and violations.
And finally… no… there will not be any civil war, at least in our lifetime (what’s left of it). The causes for such an upheaval have to exceed for more reasons than simply politics. Our economy is going great right now… no one wants to disrupt that. The average person has a life, family raising, schools, vacations coming in a month…. etc. The conditions, while hot… and libel to get hotter as Trumps’ life gets a bit more… hotter, might inspire some localized and sporadic violence… it’s not even going to get to the level of the race riots of the 60’s.
What disappoints me… are conservatives who discuss the possibilities if their own political criteria is not met… again, Americans killing Americans. The enemy is not here.. it’s out there (pointing past both coasts).. and right now it’s in Moscow and we have a President more concerned with saving his fat gluteus maximus than the country.
Russia’s gdp is just over half of California’s gdp. Russia is a squirrel to distract from Obama’s corrupt administration spying, FISC abuse, election tampering, false flags, basic incomptetence, and “scandal free” abuses of power.
Uhh.. hookay. As I recall they have a few nukes, a large military for the region, and managed to take over Crimea (not that the California Highway Patrol couldn’t do that). I have no idea your point, FanGirl.
Old Guy said:
Mike, you think the South Carolina slaveholders constituted the left. Not quite. The left and the right have switched pastries since 1860.
The constitution is not a clear, simple to read document. The framers did not even agree among themselves on what it meant and what kind of government they wanted. They just sewed the thing together with vague wording and kicked the can down the road to be sorted out later. One of the sorting outs was the civil war. People have been arguing over what the Constitution meant for over two hundred years.
It needs some cleaning up and changing badly. We are drowning in this gridlock.
There is something to that, OG. Yet having said that, amendments have been changed in the past.. added to, and deleted. I gotta sense that no one would dare touch the Bill of Rights bunch. Far easier to have a Court decide the complexities of what’s appropriate for the current society its in. Good for debate though.
The courts are already exceeding their power.
Let me guess… the liberal courts?
The ones out of Crapfornia. Shut down by the SCOTUS 85%.
For most of our countries history, there has been a peaceful transition of power. Even when there were questionable actions, the presidential election of 1960 as an example, the parties excepted the result.
The United States doesn’t have a class system like our UK brothers, however we have one none the less. While they haven’t always lived with the best ideals, our betters for the most part realized that they had an obligation to shall we say behave in public. They realized what was at stake. Somewhere along the way that code of conduct has left us.
Some would argue that the presidential election of 2000 was a turning point. I’ll leave that to the historians in the decades to come. There were a lot of people unhappy with the results of the 2008 election but excepted it peacefully.
Unfortunately, there is a segment of our citizenry that refuses to except the election of 2016. Also, what is unfortunate is the continued violent acts by mostly left leaning groups. When the public see that certain people commit criminal acts and get at most a slap on the wrist it makes a mockery of our justice system. Eric Clanton the Anitfa member assaulting people with a bike lock and getting three years’ probation, comes to mind.
A large segment of the population believe that President Trump is the duly elected president. They also believe that he has been doing a good job. Most of these people also believe in the rule of law. If people that are currently peaceable believe that an election result is invalidated by questionable means it will not be pretty.
Actually I disagree with your synoposis that there are a number of people who refuse to accept the 2016 results. I’ve not heard it one bit being echoed in the media and I personally know of no one who holds that view at all. I dare suggest that you might be confusing “refusing to accept” with simple “disappointment” or “discouragement” with the outcome. I often wonder exactly where Trump and his minions continue to bring up this idea that people are “refusing to accept”. I might also guess that somehow Trump, et al, have confused the idea of Russian meddling in the election with trying to discredit the election. At no time has any agency even suggested the Russians tampered with votes.
Now.. does that mean nobody refused to accept the results of the 2016 election? Of course not. Exceptions to every rules applies. But this propensity of conservative news and bloggers to make huge big deals of some peripheral and obscure news article, and then assigning it to an entire liberal ideal.. as if, “This guy in Poohkipsie picked his nose on a Thursday when we all know the Constitution says we do nose picking on Saturday afternoons, is an obvious liberal attempt to circumvent the Constitution.”
I mean, c’mon. Trump won… conservatives should deal with it.
Doug, I find your description of the violent protests and calls for impeachment before the inauguration as “simple “disappointment” or “discouragement” with the outcome” disappointing. We don’t even have to discuss what has happened since. There weren’t any violent protests after the 2008 election because of “disappointment” or “discouragement” with the outcome.
Repeated comments about the popular vote when our electoral system is based on the Electoral College is simply to sow the seeds of discourse.
This country has a constitution. That is just another way of saying a contract. That contract specifies how things are to be done. And more importantly if changes are needed, how that is to be accomplished.
Violence in the streets is not the way to go about it.
There have been politicians calling for harassing members of the current administration. I certainly hope you don’t feel that is appropriate. There has been attempts on the lives of members of Congress by someone with “simple “disappointment” or “discouragement” with the outcome”. I hope you don’t condone that.
Andrew.. if it’s illegal then people should go to jail. I just said it elsewhere.. don’t confuse common thugary with some idea it’s somehow a unified political strike.
Calling for impeachment is NO way inciting civil discourse and violence in the streets. It’s exercising a right in the Constitution and it does NOT imply a discrediting of the last election by any means. Neither does using the elements of the 25th amendment (although I’d not recommend it).
Eric Clanton’s actions by all civilized people should have been called attempted murder. Bashing someone’s skull with a bike lock was not “common thugary”. No matter one’s political view it should have been covered as such. When people fail to speak out about such an act they condone it. When certain news organizations choose to not cover it they are engaging in “lies of omission”. When he received only three years of probation that reinforces the view about there being two types of justice.
Andrew… I certainly can’t answer for whatever justice was administered to Clanton, and given it’s California, I most certainly can’t answer for the laws out here (I live here but my state loyalties do not). Now, I might try to common-sense the process a bit. It seems after the demonstration and the subsequent video that went to Youtube… it was internet people who managed to come together to ID this guy from Starbucks cup sizes to veins on arms. As I have read, this “evidence” was given to local police and it took some days before the police arrested him. During this time he alleges he was hassled and threatened by internet people, who managed to publish his address.
The police arrest him and he is charged with three felonies.. including a misdemeanor charge for hiding his face in the commission of a crime. After a time he gets off with 3 years probation.. and not even the face covering misdemeanor sits. All that suggests to me there might have been some ID issue.. placing him at the scene.. or unquestionable ID that he was the assailant.
I am NOT excusing this guy at all. I am also not presuming the legal process is not subject to being twisted to some agenda. Maybe you know more about this than I do.. maybe even Mike has posted something on it back when it was relevant as he tends to follow these things. But on the surface this seems like a deal to avoid some question in establishing his identity as the assailant.
I’m not too sure what your point was here. Bad law? Poor conservatives being violently picked on in a peaceful demonstration? (we shouldn’t forget the Nazi nutjob running over the lady in Charlottesville. My observation still stands.. thugs are thugs. Like the Nazi, it looks like Antifa Clanton was working alone. He’s a thug.
Doug…You just made my point. Lies of omission and the double standard. All I’ll say is look for yourself what Eric Clanton did. I’ll give you a hint, he didn’t just assault one person. Yet the mainstream news media for all intents and purposes didn’t cover it.
Using your example of Charlottesville. The video that the news media showed of a woman being stuck was not the women that died. The woman that died was from a heart attack. That was per her mother.
While one may disagree with the people protesting the removal of statues, they did have a permit. The Antifa crowd didn’t and were given a free rein by the authorities to riot. Most people don’t know that. Why because if the mainstream news media doesn’t cover it they don’t see it.
That is a disservice to all. When the mainstream news media picks sides, eventually it will come out. But in the meantime, trust is lost.
Andrew… someone covered it, I’m sure. Just because it wasn’t “Breaking News” on CNN doesn’t mean it wasn’t mentioned elsewhere. You gotta remember.. Trump himself sucks up most of the airtime.
Yes.. I am defending the media.. largely because I can critical think my own conclusions. You gotta make sure you don’t confuse the reporting of only bad news with reporting fake news. Two entirely different concepts. I happen to trust the news sources.. and I use more than just TV news. I read.
Doug… Try a thought experiment.
How would the news media cover a story of a white guy, Republican, NRA member making threats to other people online. Employed by say Chick-fil-a. Then after he tries to bash in a bunch of peoples head he is arrested. When his residence is searched they find KKK, NAZI and white supremacist materials. They find the weapon, the bloody clothing and mask he was wearing during the alleged assaults. Just ask yourself? How would the MSM cover that.
Now replace the person with liberal, college someone, with Antifa materials and see how it was covered.
Old Guy said:
I have seen comments on another blog encouraging people on the left to pubically harass Republican and conservative officials in protests of their acts and opinions, and I have heardstatements on tv by people on the left encouraging such acts. That is something that is happening.
Old Guy said:
Where do you get the idea that a large segment of the population do not believe that Trump is the duly elected President. I have not seen that anywhere and have no one one say it nor have I heard anything of that sort reported in the news. Sounds to me like something you or someone else made up out of nothing.
I didn’t say “a large segment of the population do not believe that Trump is the duly elected President”. My comment was “Unfortunately, there is a segment of our citizenry that refuses to except the election of 2016”.
Old Guy said:
Sorry I misquoted you. Not intentional.
Wow.. I got an ally in here? :)
Old Guy said:
It gets tough sometimes.
It’s Soros /s
MARTIN FISCHER said:
I see it all over “Not my President”, whether on tshirts, hats or simply a sig line on a person’s internet comments.
Old Guy said:
I have heard people say not my president. But I heard people say that about Obama also when he was in. I do not like to see that. But it does not mean the same as saying he is not the legally elected president.
If society starts to break down; there are several groups that live on getting food by the day, Vegetarians and food stamp recipients (the ones who have kids get fed at school for the most part then take the card to the gas station for snacks and soda). Have you seen what happens within 48 hours of a natural disaster? People don’t have food and they start screaming for FEMA. People in ‘flyover country’ are in better shape in those cases. They have deep freezers full of meat hunted in the winter.
Think over the last 10 years. Who was mistreated and looked down on by government entities? Military? Police? Preppers? Ranchers? NRA supporters? I know people that have been invited to join militias, in person, not on the internet or phone. If society breaks down, you don’t get a choice whether to be involved or, people will come to take your food/water/weapons/ammo because they don’t know how to grow or forage their own food.
Tea party, farmers, small businesses, large business offended by ‘you didn’t build that’ mentality….
Well, I’ve heard that after a social collapse that dissolves government completely and the nation sinks into anarchy, half of us will be dead in a year anyway due to starvation, death from disease, death from trying to defend yourself and your family, death from people wanting what you have, death from rape, and suicide knowing the world can never go back to the way it was. The remaining half will be the warlords, and people (mostly women and kids) being into indentured servitude to those warlords.
But on the plus side, everything being equal, half the liberals will be gone!
Old Guy said:
People in flyover country have freezers full of meat? Slow down a minute. Sounds to me like a little overstatement. Or a big one. A few people people hunt and fish but there just is not that much game available anymore.
Society break down. Could happen any time. There will be no electricity and the meat will spoil. Better start up the smoke houses again instead of relying on the freezers.
You realize us old guys will die off first. The youngin’s will consider us unproductive (and un-reproductive) baggage and cast us out into the wilderness.. or onto an ice flow as polar bear magnets.
Old Guy said:
I know a guy who does not like guns, so is collecting ammo. When things break down he thinks he, who has no gun, will trade the ammo to men with guns, for food. What could possibly go wrong?
The guy must be an old republican capitalist. :)
Old Guy said:
He is forty and us a securities lawyer working as a highly paid executive, lives in Detroit, works in one of the largest banks in the country. He is Catholic but originally from Atlanta. Do rich Catholics vote republican. Not sure.
Not so many these days, I might guess.
“A few people hunt and fish but there just is not that much game available anymore.” Maybe where you live. DNR keeps upping the bag limit for deer around here because we are over run with them. Most of the hunters harvest extra and give then to Hunters for the Hungry.
Old Guy said:
We aware overrun with deer and coyotes here where I live. The deer are ruining plant life and still not getting enough food. I would like to open season for a few years to thin the population down.
Leonard Jones said:
Yep, definitely a troll. I have seen worse though. I used to frequent a
Blog that hasn’t been updated since July 4, 2017. For the better part of
a year before the Blog went dead, there was a leftist troll who was
threatening users with physical violence. He was so insane that he
claimed to be the leader of an army of minions. This leftist psychopath
is still commenting on the Bloggers last post. I know this because I check
in from time to time to see if the guy who ran the site returned to the
To quote our host: “Liberalism is a persistent vegetative state.”
I’m just spitballing here, but constantly returning to the scene of a psychopath’s murder of a website under the presumption of checking for a pulse, knowing full well the psychopath is still there, might call to question a morbid desire that your attraction to the site was for the psychopath himself…. Or, in fact, you have a dual personality and the alleged psychopath is you. Which seems to explain the persistence of Trumpian conservatives preferring to live in an alternative reality, hiding from the truth, ignoring moral responsibility… and denying global warming.
As for quotes, I tend to prefer… “Not for self, but country.”
Old Guy said:
No trolls here. I know what a troll is. Have not seen one on this site. An honest discussion is not a troll.