All photos in this article are screenshots from the shortened video.
There is much speculation about the recent death of Robert “LaVoy” Finicum, a rancher–as far as we know–involved in the recent standoff with the federal government over their occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. I say “as far as we know,” because the Media is calling everyone on his side of the standoff a rancher, and we know how accurate the Media is about such things. Some are calling it another Ruby Ridge or Waco, and there are claims that at least 100 rounds were fired by the FBI, and that Finicum was trying to surrender when shot in the face.
I have not, to date, written about this situation because I have had no resources beyond pure speculation. That has changed, to at least a small extent, though it is possible that we may never know with absolute certainty what happened. That, by the way, is not unusual, and is not necessarily due to the government trying to cover things up, though that certainly does occur.
Bob Owens at Bearing Arms has some pertinent comments and an embedded video shot by the FBI from an aircraft, which Bob calls a plane. The relatively slow movement of the camera, pattern of flight, would seem to suggest a helicopter.
The video, which lasts just over eight minutes, has been edited by the FBI, and it is possible to spot the more obvious editing here and there, but without better equipment, it’s not possible spot all possible editing, at least not to any degree that might help one understand what had been edited and why.
Here’s a general timeline of the video, and my observations, for what little they are worth at this point. Please keep in mind my time notations are based entirely on the video timestamps, and could easily be a second or two off:
The scene is a clear, two-land asphalt road through a heavily forested area. Heavy snow is everywhere but on the roadway, and it is particularly heavy at the edges of the road, which has very narrow, or no, shoulders. This is common in such areas as snowplows continually build up the snow on the shoulders.
The ranchers are traveling in a white extended cab pickup with a topper on the bed, and have obviously been under observation by the FBI for some time.
1:06: Two police vehicles–probably Oregon State Patrol–make a traffic stop of the pickup, which stops in the center of the road. For the next several minutes, from 4-6 officers are apparently trying to talk the occupants of the pickup out of the vehicle. They stay by their vehicles, using them for cover, though at one point one officer tries to flank the pickup on the passenger side, but the snow is obviously too deep and/or treacherous; he soon returns to the police vehicles.
2:50: The camera zooms out and backtracks, some distance behind police vehicles, where what appears to be a Jeep is parked on the roadway. I can ‘t tell if that is a police vehicle or merely someone happening onto the action ahead.
3:57: The camera has returned to the traffic stop, and nothing appears to have changed. One can see the brake lights, and/or backup lights occasionally activating on the pickup, but no one is ever seen to leave the vehicle, and the police don’t approach it.
NOTE: From time to time, I saw what appeared to be a red glow on the top of the pickup, at the gap between the cab of the truck and the topper. It’s not visible from every angle. I at first thought it to be a laser sight from the FBI aircraft, but it’s far less sinister. The owner of the truck apparently did not disable the red brake light at the top center of the cab when installing the topper. It is the brake light occasionally being activated that is making the glow against the white truck and topper.
4:40: A graphic is displayed noting that the pickup stayed motionless for about 3.47.
4:49: The video fades back in, and the pickup almost immediately accelerates away, and continues for what appears to be at least a mile, where a roadblock of three police vehicles suddenly comes into view.
5:00: During the flight of the pickup, at this point, there is an obvious jump cut. There is no way to tell what was removed or why, or how long that segment might have been.
5:50: As the pickup approaches the roadblock, it hesitates only fractionally and tries to drive around the roadblock, but it immediately becomes stuck in the snow. It appears that the right rear side of the pickup actually struck one of the officers, knocking him to his knees, as it passed. It takes him a relatively short time to rise, but he does so slowly, appears to be limping, and may have been injured. It also appears that the officer, for reasons unknown, actually moved toward the truck as it left the road.
As soon as the pickup comes to a halt, the driver’s door flies open, and Finicum steps out, his arms raised. The door quickly closes, which is likely due to the grade at the shoulder–the passenger’s side of the pickup is canted substantially lower than the driver’s side.
Two officers are covering Finicum in a sort of “L” configuration. One officer is more or less behind the pickup, and the other further into the woods on the driver’s side. Neither officer has concealment or cover. These appear to be OSP officers, but I can’t tell with any degree of certainty. The pickup came to rest only about one car length from the parked police vehicles.
6:00: Finicum, more or less facing the officer behind the pickup, drops his hands, and appears to be reaching for something in or near his waistband. He quickly raises his hands again, but turns toward the other officer, again dropping his hands.
6:08: Finicum falls to his back and is not seen to move thereafter, though it would be impossible to detect any small movements due to the relatively low lighting, the lack of definition, etc.
I cannot see any sign of gunshots, but the backdrop is clean white snow, which would tend to mask any muzzle flash and/or gun smoke. My impression is that no more than two rounds were fired, perhaps one from each officer. My impression is that it was the second officer toward which Finicum turned that fired, but again, I could easily be mistaken. However, there was very little time; Finicum fell immediately, and I could see no sign of further gunfire.
From that point, the officers throw at least three flashbangs in an apparent attempt to get the others to get out of the pickup. They do not comply, and the detonations of the flashbangs are clear and easy to discern.
6:55: At the front passenger’s side window of the pickup, I see what appears to be a disturbance in what may be snow on the roof of the pickup, as if something moving fast struck the truck, or perhaps a gun was fired out that window. There is no obvious breaking glass, no muzzle flash, just that sudden disturbance, like what one would expect of snow being forcibly blown up and outward by a sudden blast from a compressed air hose. It is even possible that a snowball, thrown by one of the officers, was the cause of what I saw.
I doubt that it was gunfire, only because a police officer is standing, no more than a car length away, in plain sight of the passenger’s window of the pickup, and he makes no obvious sign of surprise, nor does he move as if in potential danger.
7:20: Another more or less identical disturbance occurs at the same place on the pickup. Again, it’s impossible to tell what causes it. This time, the police officer is standing behind a police vehicle, keeping it between himself and the pickup.
7:49: The video ends. No one has exited the pickup, and the officers are not approaching it. Finicum appears to be in the same position as when he first fell to his back on the snow.
Analysis:
NOTE: Go here for what is billed as the complete, unedited video of the incident, apparently submitted by the FBI to You Tube. It is 26:28 long, and shows only longer sections of the same things I’ve already described. There is a longer showing of the initial stop, and again, no one leaves the cab of the pickup, and the officers do not approach. When the pickup suddenly accelerates and flees, there is no apparent action on the part of the officers that causes that flight. There is no difference in the shooting sequence.
The aircraft slowly circles the stuck pickup. As it does, one has a clear view only when the camera is at the rear and front of the vehicle. Side views are mostly obscured by tall trees. What appear to be four men eventually, individually, exit the driver’s side of the vehicle, and are directed, with their hands up, to the roadway, and professionally and safely taken into custody. They appear to be uninjured, but of course, it’s not possible to be sure. Shortly thereafter, officers clear the vehicle, and attend to Finicum, who apparently still has not moved.
At several points, I can see what could possibly be bullet impacts on the windshield of the vehicle, at least one, and possibly two, however, it is also possible what I see could be nothing more than something white or light colored sitting on the dashboard under the windshield. The quality of the video makes it impossible to tell. Even if these were bullet impacts, such as the earlier disturbances at the passenger’s window, we have no idea what caused the officers to fire, there is no clearly apparent damage to the vehicle, and this would raise the number of rounds fired in the “shootout” by the police to perhaps six. Without understanding why the officers fired–if they did–there is no way to judge the legitimacy of such firing.
Clearly, there was substantial mistrust on both sides in this entire situation. However, the officers at the original stop did not appear to act aggressively, and seemed willing to try to talk the ranchers out of the white pickup. I could see no apparent sign of gunfire from anyone at the initial stop, and the pickup appears to be undamaged.
Due to the fade out in the shorter video, it is impossible to tell what caused the pickup to leave, and the longer video is no more revealing, however, once stopped by the police, anyone that leaves without permission is going to be pursued, and by leaving without permission, virtually always has committed a high level misdemeanor, and in some states, a felony.
In many respects, this is a perfect road for a police pursuit. There is no other traffic anywhere in sight, and the pursuing officers, knowing there is a roadblock ahead, do not push the pickup. They keep a reasonable–and substantial–distance behind it.
While Finicum did initially have his hands up in a surrender gesture, he never stopped moving. This alone would have made any officer very concerned. When he dropped both of his hands to his waist, I imagine the first officer–the one behind the pickup–immediately warned him not to move or to put his hands back up. I saw no sign of shots from that officer or the other officer, nor did Finicum obviously react to bullet impacts. Rather, he momentarily raised his arms again, apparently responding to the officer’s commands.
Then, while turning toward the second officer, he again quickly and aggressively dropped his hands, and at this point, immediately went limp and fell, indicating probable massive neurological trauma. In other words, he appeared to have been hit in the brain or brain stem, and did not obviously move again from that moment.
Again, the officers are in no hurry to approach the pickup. Apparently satisfied that Finicum represents no further threat, they all retreat behind the cover of their vehicles and appear, for the most part, to stay there. While the video is running, they make no overtly aggressive moves toward the pickup. Some may argue that flashbangs are inherently aggressive, but when detonated in the outdoors, in daylight, particularly when at least partially muffled by deep snow, they are essentially little more than noisemakers, having no stunning or disorienting effect. This would be particularly true for the occupants of the pickup. Flashbang effectiveness pretty much requires indoor lighting levels and small, enclosed spaces. With this in mind, I’m not sure why the police would be using them. Surely they would understand this?
There are no obvious signs of gunshots, though clearly, at least one or two were fired at and struck Finicum. There appears to be no “gun fight” or “shootout” as many media sources and others have claimed. If so, it did not take place during the run of the video, and as the others taken into custody appear to have been uninjured, as were the officers–with one possible exception–it’s reasonable to conclude there was nothing resembling a gun fight until there is much more conclusive evidence to prove otherwise.
As to the shooting of Finicum, it appears to be justified. Reportedly, a loaded 9mm handgun was found in his coat pocket where he was reaching. Some have claimed that Finicum always carried a .45, but first reports are almost always wrong, and we can be reasonably sure only that Finicum may have been carrying a handgun of some sort, which would surely have been likely.
Even if Finicum were not armed, his actions, and the circumstances, would have led any reasonable officer to believe they were in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death, providing ample justification to shoot Finicum. That they apparently waited for a second aggressive and potentially deadly motion from him before firing speaks well of their professional competence and reluctance to fill the air with lead, as some police officers do in far less threatening circumstances.
Remember too that both of these officers would have seen their fellow officer, apparently struck by the pickup and injured. In fact, the officer behind the pickup passed within inches of the potentially injured officer as he was still on his knees in the snow, as he moved toward Finicum.
Why is this important? Add to their knowledge of the danger the fact of the high-speed pursuit and flight from fellow officers. Add also the very real possibility that the driver of the pickup–Finicum–may have purposely tried to hit a fellow officer with his truck. From the moment they laid eyes on him, they would have considered him a dangerous felon, and a potential killer, yet they seem to have waited for a second overtly threatening gesture before firing, and even then, apparently fired the minimum number of rounds necessary to end the immediate threat.
Final Thoughts:
Is it possible I’m missing things? Of course. Could the officers have fired shots that are in the portion of the video not shown? Possible, but again, I see no signs of damage on the truck, and viewers can see it from many angles. In addition, at no time do the police obviously react like officers under fire, or expecting hostile fire. Indeed, they take reasonable protective measures. They have their weapons drawn and covering the pickup, and they mostly stay behind the cover of their vehicles, but I can detect no obvious police gunfire, or overt hostilities.
Anyone is legally justified in resisting, with force, an unlawful arrest. The trick is in knowing when one is occurring. The police are also authorized to use whatever force is necessary to make an arrest.
One can argue about resistance to the government, governmental overreach, etc., and regular readers know I do not hesitate to criticize the government and the police when there is reason to believe they are wrong or have acted unlawfully. But in virtually every imaginable circumstance, the smart thing to do when challenged by the police is to do as they command. If they have violated procedure or the law, if they have made a false arrest, one can deal with that later. Collecting, and enjoying the fruits of, civil judgments is rather difficult to do when one is dead.
In this case, again, judging only by what even the FBI admits is an edited video, the officers made a legitimate traffic stop. The people in the pickup fled the officers, committing a significant offense in the process. Finicum, if driving the truck as he appears to have been, put the officers and occupants of the truck in danger by trying to bypass the roadblock, and might be chargeable with attempted murder for striking the officer (even if he didn’t intend such, recklessness is often an element of such crimes). Then, Finicum gave the officers more than reasonable cause to believe he was reaching for a gun–twice.
The complete and apparently unedited video–and I can’t detect any obvious signs of editing–reveals nothing of obvious importance that the shorter video did not. In fact, the officers appear to have behaved with restraint and professionalism throughout.
For the moment, the actions of the police appear to be reasonable and within the law.
I will, of course, continue to keep an eye open, and update as necessary.
Stately McDaniel Manor 
Interesting that there’s no comments. Let this be a Mike Brown video where the mostly minority Ferguson majority stood up to protest and the comments here would have been out the ying yang. I would have more feelings towards these guys cause if they were a bunch of white supremacists, but the fact that it took this long for police to start shooting people is a double standard in itself. The number of disputed and seemingly abusing police shootings in the STL area alone leaves me to believe the Feds , Oregon state police etc were especially light on these patriots , bigots or however you view them.
In what case did the police just knowingly start shooting anyone with a black person in it? Really like maybe in Ferguson as they were looting and burning buildings down, or committing murder during these incidents. Or maybe it was during the Baltimore riots? HMM, I wonder. Such nonsense.
There is a double standard.
In this case, the Progressives are apparently willing to consider various possibilities. Maybe Finicum had a handgun. Even if he didn’t, maybe he made a furtive movement (reaching in his pocket or waistband after being told not to move), and the cops were forced to make a life-or-death decision in a split second.
But if you apply that same benefit of doubt in the shooting of Michael Brown or Tamir Rice, then you are a racist.
And if Finicum (or Dillon Taylor) looked like he could be Obama’s son, then there would be “protests” (i.e., riots). The media would be pushing another “hands up, don’t shoot” meme. And the involved officers would be prosecuted in state court for murder, and/or in federal court on civil rights charges.
I agree. And I hear not a peep from the lefties about the over 100 rounds allegedly fired Finicum, despite the inflammatory “Shoot me 16 times” meme re Laquan McDonald, and the 137 rounds fired at Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams in Cleveland.
anyone with any firearms training knows that if you are already drawn down on a suspect, he cannot draw and shoot with any accuracy before you can fire. The officers never SAW A GUN. It was a situation similar to Amadou Diallo . Was Finicum left handed?
So, if you’re holding someone at gunpoint and he attempts to draw a weapon, how long are you supposed to wait? Till you see a weapon? Till he points it at you? Are you supposed to give him one free shot? Put yourself in the officer’s position. How long would you wait? Now put yourself in the suspect’s position. Would you draw on someone holding you at gunpoint? No? This looks like a classic Suicide By Cop.
You’re letting your politics get in the way of your thinking. If you saw video of Michael Brown doing the exact same thing this guy did, you’d say, “See? Officer Wilson was right!” Which he was. Facts don’t change according to the color or the politics of the actors.
And by the way, anyone with any tactical firearms training (which I’ve both given and received) knows that action always beats reaction, and that it’s very possible for a person to draw and shoot a person who is holding him at gunpoint. It may be a tie, with both people getting shot, but the person with the alleged advantage (in this case, the officer) would still get shot.
Dear Old 1811:
Quite so.
nailed it Tom. yes there is a double standard. the amount that of people whining about this is practically nil. there is no lynch mob after the police and hence there will be no political theatre prosecutions to provide the blood for the mob
the media has already lost interest. the American people have already lost interest. if it ain’t pushing the media narrative black people are always awful victims nobody will care.
No. Just NO. Know one knows this because it is just not true. It has been show repeatedly by more than one study that you cannot react quicker than someone can act.
Dear EEllis:
The axiom that action is always faster than reaction is useful for rational people who make rational decisions. It is not an absolute, however. One may, through experience, reading of body language, and anticipation, overcome that inherent advantage. I have done it, and had it done to me, in swordsmanship. And if one is not thinking rationally in a stressful situation, the restraint, and cool calculation, knowledge of that axiom provides–if one knows it in the first place–may instantly dissolve.
Is that what happened in this situation? I don’t know with any degree of certainty. At this point I’m merely making general observations based on two videos of weak clarity and limited contrast.
The one serious problem that I might have with the tactics of this shooting is the possibility that one or more officers were shooting the subject with “less lethal” bean bag shotgun rounds or nerf 40mm rounds which then provokes an agonal response to reach for the site of impact. Various agencies, including the Portland Oregon police department, have has incidents where unarmed people were fatally shot by an officer armed with a conventional firearm because the flinched in response to being shot with a beanbag shotgun.
Setting aside the tactics, the strategy of this shooting was reprehensible. The underlying situation is a result of the tactics employed by various government agencies to appropriate private property for public use without just compensation. In the case of the Hammonds whose cause had drawn the attention of the Bundy crew, government agents had intentionally endangered their livelihoods and lives by refusing to allow controlled burns to keep fuel loads in check. Government agents then refused to control the resulting catastrophic fire that threatened to burn the Hammonds ranch. The Hammonds were then unjustly prosecuted for terrorism because they lit an unpermitted backfire that saved their ranch from the government’s intentional arson.
For all of Bundy’s and Finicum’s faults, their occupation was bringing attention to the underlying issues. Even the urban pajama boys at the Oregonian were beginning to understand that urban Oregonians and out of State activists have been waging economic warfare against rural Oregonians. One background article even acknowledged that the spotted owl fraud had already decimated the economy of Harney County. Oregon’s Governor Kate Brown had only a few days earlier publicly decreed that the occupation needed to end and had given the OSP their marching orders. They then changed the venue for a peaceful community meeting to lure a large portion of the occupiers into an area where they could be isolated and arrested or killed.
Dear James Crawford:
Good points. One of the problems in this situation is the conflation of many past potential abuses by the federal government, combined with obvious unlawful acts by the “ranchers,” combined with the events in the video. I’ll be writing more about this soon, but I can’t promise to have absolute facts.
“Remember too that both of these officers would have seen their fellow officer, apparently struck by the pickup and injured. In fact, the officer behind the pickup passed within inches of the potentially injured officer as he was still on his knees in the snow, as he moved toward Finicum.
Why is this important? Add to their knowledge of the danger the fact of the high-speed pursuit and flight from fellow officers. Add also the very real possibility that the driver of the pickup–Finicum–may have purposely tried to hit a fellow officer with his truck. From the moment they laid eyes on him, they would have considered him a dangerous felon, and a potential killer, yet they seem to have waited for a second overtly threatening gesture before firing, and even then, apparently fired the minimum number of rounds necessary to end the immediate threat.”
I have a problem with your analyses of this part of the situation because it clearly shows that the injured officer ran in front of the truck and that is how he was struck. He left his protective vehicle and placed himself in front of the truck that was going through deep snow and so not entirely controllable. this was that OFFICER’S mistake. He should own it and the other officers should know that. If you blindly back another officer who was in the wrong then you are just as wrong.
Now as to how Finucum was shot. I see the officer by the vehicle shooting Finicum as he turned around-losing his footing again- as he is startled by the second officer and the second officer shooting him also in reflex to the shot by the first officer. Also if you look at the vid again you will see the second officer shooting Finicum again as he is on the ground and moves his right hand around. When Finicum is on the ground and the second officers goes wide around where Finicum is, still pointing his weapon at him, you can see Finicumm move his right hand, appears he raises it in the air, he suddenly drops it straight down. I had to watch it several times to get all the action straight.
One other point, you are right in that the vid isn’t close enough to really tell but I still say that is a bullet hole in the windshield. I wonder about that in particular because of the officer that jumped/ran in front of the truck.
I would also like to add that those that are making this into a racial thing instead of anything that actually has to do with this incident should find another place to argue that nonsense. I don’t think it belongs in any analyses of this situation.
I’m not trying to inject race into this. I’m merely pointing out that this is a straight-up justified shooting of a combative offender at the end of a vehicle pursuit, the kind that happens regularly throughout the United States. In this case, some of the commenters identify politically with the offender and are letting that color their judgment. The officers did exactly what any reasonable person, including the people calling them murderers, would have done in the same situation.
If my comparison of this justified shooting to the Michael Brown situation confused you, my apologies.
Dear stobberdobbber:
Thanks for your comment! My impression of the officer you mention is that he, fearing the truck would slide into him, was compelled to try to get out of the way. A large part of the problem with all of this, is that I have only my observations of the videos to go on. We know relatively little at the moment.
As to precisely what is happening when Finicum is shot, I’m afraid you’re able to see far more detail than I.
Some are suggesting that the passenger window glass was entirely missing, and two bullets fired through that open space exited the windshield. This is possible, but I certainly could not detect missing window glass, and can’t be sure of bullet impacts on the windshield.
We’ll learn more as the defense becomes involved and releases information, but for now, I’ll stick to what I can reasonably support, and also provide information on normal police practices.
Thanks again!
I believe the jeep had the other 3 people who were arrested on that road per comments by their lawyer. They choose to stop and submit to the police.
I want to thank Mike for this analysis. I disagree with it, but I appreciate him pointing things out and giving his expertise.
I guess my first thing is, I disagree with the SUV trying to hit LEO. LEO jumped into the path. I just keep bringing my curser back to watch it again.
I must confess, I’ve been following this case for months, not just the recent weeks since the takeover.
If we can just take a short step back to figure out how we got here. If you don’t want to copy this link, google “Greg Walden Hammond” and watch the 24 minute video of the Senator, on the floor of senate, describing this case.
Now, the fine senator mirrors my thoughts of resolving the issue in a different way than a takeover. But there is so much pertinent information in the video from the senator. It clearly shows the intent of the agencies (EPA, BLM, FBI) to use any lie to squash any attempt for anything peaceful to make an impact. He even cries on the senate floor.
So going into the takeover, those of us who average 100 hours per week reading & watching were well aware, things weren’t being handled ethically on the behalf of the feds. With that, I do not believe much of what they put out in the press.
Beginning with the orignal press releases which were proven untrue by the video Mike inserts. They released more than one statement that said, “LaVoy came out of the vehicle and charged the officers and never had his hands up.”
Well, as you see, he did.
Also, the driver of the vehicle with Ammon Bundy was a guy named Mark McConnell.
He spent 3 weeks at that refuge. Try to find a mugshot. You won’t.
He was released and was on YouTube in less than 3 hours (the Oregonian linked to his video) also saying LaVoy came out of the SUV and charged the officers in an aggressive manner. McConnell was never detained nor arrested. Now think about that. Any agent worth their salt would have (rightfully so), pumped him for every incident of the prior 3 weeks. They didn’t. It is obvious that he was a plant.
Maybe in the eyes of the law, it was justified but in my eyes, it proves it was a setup.
Another piece that says this was a setup.
Three hours before the shooting, Bundy puts out a live call he’s having with an FBI agent “Chris” who won’t give his name or badge. I wasn’t aware that’s against the alw but it appears that’s a no no. Regardless, Ammond is trying to arrange to speak with him, eye to eye. Ammon then lays out how the justice system is hiding evidence. “Chris” doesn’t argue, just dances. No problem, that’s how LEO is trained.
Now, this next part was also printed in the Oregonian paper and other places, but these 2 vehicles were on their way to meet Sheriff Ward and the citizens for a Q & A.
The citizens showed up and were told, right around the time of the shooting, that the meeting wouldn’t take place.
Guess where Sheriff Ward was? Already at the roadblock. They NEVER intended for tthat citizen meeting to take place!
Last, contradicting the press conferences and the ‘plant’s’ version, Victoria Sharpe, a teen, was the only other person released. Here is her testimony. Contradicts the feds, although….. she incriminates LaVoy by stating what she heard him say to officers. She claims he kept saying, “Just shoot me then”. Not a bright thing to do on LaVoy’s part.
After you listen to her testimony (which is sometimes hard as she’s hysterical) but then go back and watch the video Mike posted again. You will absolutely see the windows gone on the driver’s side. You can googel and find, Ryan Bundy ABSOLUTELY was shot while in the car.
So that’s my take. And I guess, I just hope people dig deeper than just what you hear on the media. Even if you think they were wrong or if you think they deserved it, that’s Ok. I just ask that you spend 30 minutes to listen to some videos and history and then make your decision.
Dear Dixie:
Thanks, but I think we agree more than you might think. Remember, I’m pretty new to this situation. I have no doubt that, particularly in the Age of Obama, the Federal Government can and does behave in arrogant, unaccountable and tyrannical ways. I also have no doubt that there are police officers, local, state and federal that look for opportunities to use deadly force, perhaps even manufacture them.
Ryan Bundy was shot while in the car? Possible. What we don’t know is why. Would a reasonable police officer exposed to the same circumstances have believed shooting–at that moment–was justified and necessary? I have no idea.
As to the idea that McConnell was a plant, that’s also possible, and if so, an entirely legitimate law enforcement practice for intelligence gathering. It’s what they do with such intelligence that may or may not be wrong.
The authorities may well have acted improperly in this situation. I just don’t know enough at them moment to make that determination.
Thanks again!
First know, you are in my prayers for a safe surgery. I’ve had shoulder surgery and it was successful and I was mad at myself for putting it off for years. May the Lord bless you with rapid healing.
My point about the ‘plant’ was simply, the media keeps putting out reports that the 2 vehicles were randomly 20 miles away from the refuge. There was nothing random about it. It was orchestrated.
My issue is with the media and the official press releases. I just get so frustrated when I watch the FBI at the podium, telling a clear lie. The ‘official’ statements have changed so often and told so many things that are not true. It makes me both mad and sad.
As for Ryan, if you type “Ryan Bundy” injured, you will see ‘official’ statements given to various major media (often contradicting themselves). All agree he was ‘injured, treated, released’. The family is saying he still has a bullet in him while one government official said it was shrapnel. Who knows.
My biggest frustration in all of this? Because of people like the Senator, sheriffs from neighboring counties, etc leading up to this, we knew things would go down and the BLM wouldn’t be honest about it.
I guess my bottom line is, they weren’t honest. On multiple levels.
Once again, my heart is broken that I can’t believe the feds.
Some day, I’ll take off my rose-colored glasses but that same disappointment gets me every time. {sad face}
Again, prayers up for a quick recovery. I will be watching tonight to see if things went well.
It has been reported by a Finicum family friend that
leVoys body has returned home. LeVoy has nine gunshot wounds including
one to his face. The two females in the truck have now given nearly identical
eyewitness accounts. The first stop,the vehicle was fired upon, I’d run too.
This was a highly planned out endeavor by Leo, just like shooting game in a canyon,
flush them out towards where the real firepower is located.
I suggest read every bit of info on the FBI Portland agent in charge, his background
in Utah, the federal judge in Portland and her activist sons too.
I don’t believe any warrants had been issued, no crimes had been committed,Leos knew the destination of the vehicle and probably who the occupants were.
The Feds and OSP Cowboyd-up for a real shootout. The Bundy crew had been there
for nearly a month, not one crime committed, even ate at all the local joints and been
shopping locally, these people were on their way to a community meeting which Leo
new about and were undoubtably attending themselves, a hit was put out. LeVoy
was the spokesman who happened to be pretty easy to figure out, if ya poke just right
he’ll do this and a jab he’ll do that. Flush him down that canyon road and he will come out blazing but he did’t,he had in hands up.
Listen to the woman’s interviews,hundreds of rounds, a pre stop, a pre-positioned road block all on grainy video, who woulda thought.